Like Skytrain, the San Diego Trolley is also polycentric, which I believe is why it had the strongest post COVID LRT recovery in US/Canada. And SANDAG is only planning to make the system more polycentric.
Have you been to Mission Valley? Previously I've mentioned that SDSU's new $4B Mission Valley satellite campus is only 8 min away by LRT from SDSU main campus. But in the same neighborhood, on the same Green Line LRT, you have the biggest mall in the city and another under construction $4B infill TOD. Right next to Mission Valley to the West you have Old Town, which is a big transit hub with the Green and Blue Lines, and could get a TOD with up to 10,000 units and about 3 mil sq ft office space.
A couple stations down the Green Line, you have Middletown station, which will be the future transfer point to a Phoenix skytrain-style APM connecting to the airport and Downtown.
North of Old Town is the new Mid Coast Trolley, which already has the busiest bus line in the city feeding into it and is spawning TOD including 23 story tall student apartments and a 600K sq ft biomedical office campus. If the city has its way the area around UTC station will be upzoned for up to 300 units per acre.
Given enough funding, a circumferential regional rail line will connect UTC station with SDSU Mission Valley stopping by Kearny Mesa, another massively upzoned brownfield area along the way, then passing through dense inner city areas before ending at San Ysidro. It'll be almost completely along surface arterials instead of freeways.
All this TOD is happening in areas North of Downtown San Diego, which is a perfect rebalancing of the Trolley system, as currently the highest ridership segment of the Trolley is South of Downtown. And hopefully this polycentricity will make all day frequency even more economical to run. Not that the Trolley currently has high operating costs. In fact, as Alon Levy had noted, it has some of the lowest of any US LRT.
The Trolley absolutely does a lot right and other systems in the US could learn a lot from it, however I would like to see some more modern design decisions being taken - the grade crossings on the new extension are nuts in my opinion. Modern 100% low floor vehicles also probably make sense for some services.
I also think that higher speed regional rail as you reference is critical, light rail is speed limited and not competitive with cars over longer distances!
The streetcars have a real problem getting across Bloor and turning through heavy Dundas traffic to get into/out of the Dundas W station. Often wondered if the streetcar loop could be integrated into the Choice development on the SE corner, with ped passage under Bloor to the subway. I understood the UP/GO platform was to be moved south into the Choice development as well.
I don't think the station is getting moved, in fact I am sure it is not (new platform and tunnels coming soon) however I definitely think having ped passages would make a lot of sense! We really ought to have a selective priority signal in general because streetcars often struggle to get into and out of the loops.
Interesting discussion surrounding the extension of the western end of the Ontario Line, on the east end of the line it's obvious that the line should eventually be extended north along Don Mills to Sheppard and possibly points north (it would be nice to see it extended to IBM and J-Town on Steeles). I've heard the western end of the line would be extended along Dufferin St to the midtown rail corridor and then branch west and north along Jane. Perhaps going along Roncesvalles would be a better route?
I've not read anything definitive about a potential west Ontario Line extension, however suggestions have been along or under the GO/UPX rail corridor up to Dundas West (& potentially beyond, such as to the Junction). Another is to extend the Ontario due west toward Parkdale and Humber Bay Shores (Park Lawn & Lake Shore Blvd West), where there's a huge 25 tower condo development planned. Although the GO station there has been approved, and the Waterfront West LRT may eventually reach there in the 2040s (not yet approved), traffic will become a clusterf&ck before then, w/ only 2 roads to the community). I'm not suggesting that this is the correct extension, just pointing out the alternative. A detailed analysis of alignments, potential ridership, land use planning (& unfortunately politicians) will determine the most beneficial route.
I've often thought that Bloor-Dundas West (BDW?) is quiteunderdeveloped as TOD for your stated reasons, but fortunately development is starting. Add to that the Bloor-Lansdowne (Blansdowne) infill GO station a short walk away, and this twin hub becomes super connected. I suspect nothing has happened partly because of zoning and perhaps neighbour complaints, though I've not heard of the latter. Obviously the condos need to have affordable housing components, as the immediate area is not well off. Plus the ongoing Crossways resistance to the TTC-GO tunnel connexion beneath it may indicate some heat from locals.
Roncies 504 service has been improved w/ bumpout raised loading platforms, & bike lanes, and the corresponding reduced traffic, & further such improvements need to be made on the 506 College route into High Park. And obviously further east on 505 & 506 routes to give streetcars priority over cars. It seems to me that the segment north of Roncies on Dundas up to the station is not bad, but could use additional transit priority.
As more condos are being constructed (and needed!), & our roads fill up with traffic, we need more, and more effective, surface transit priority. Adding people & cars, & some GO train service (albeit needed), is still insufficient for this rapidly growing city. Residents need more reliable and more frequent local route service, if they are to rely on transit and not cars.
The city is in a key transition, from car based to transit network based. Additional LRT & subway lines is great, plus additional non-rush hour GO service, but this all needs to be based on reliable local service. The city & province are funding the former, finally, and fortunately. But we need a similar investment in our surface transit network. Building subways is really expensive. The King Street Crosstown Transit Priority Corridor shows what a hundred million (or so) can do to increase existing surface transit twofold, without the disruption and spending of billions on subways. I'm in no way arguing that the Ontario Line is not needed - it is, and it's way overdue. But local transit is the feeder and distributer of subway, LRT, GO, & UPX trips. That's where the city is falling down.
Don't disagree re local transit at all, which is why I suggest extending 504 to the Junction. I also think cycling infrastructure has a number of major benefits over local transit that mean it should also be a much bigger focus. We have a LOT of local transit routes that could honestly probably be better off being replaced with good cycling infra - or at least a change in focus.
We also need to not forget ped space, Toronto has very narrow sidewalks in a lot of places - including the above area and we need to do a lot better!
Like Skytrain, the San Diego Trolley is also polycentric, which I believe is why it had the strongest post COVID LRT recovery in US/Canada. And SANDAG is only planning to make the system more polycentric.
Have you been to Mission Valley? Previously I've mentioned that SDSU's new $4B Mission Valley satellite campus is only 8 min away by LRT from SDSU main campus. But in the same neighborhood, on the same Green Line LRT, you have the biggest mall in the city and another under construction $4B infill TOD. Right next to Mission Valley to the West you have Old Town, which is a big transit hub with the Green and Blue Lines, and could get a TOD with up to 10,000 units and about 3 mil sq ft office space.
A couple stations down the Green Line, you have Middletown station, which will be the future transfer point to a Phoenix skytrain-style APM connecting to the airport and Downtown.
North of Old Town is the new Mid Coast Trolley, which already has the busiest bus line in the city feeding into it and is spawning TOD including 23 story tall student apartments and a 600K sq ft biomedical office campus. If the city has its way the area around UTC station will be upzoned for up to 300 units per acre.
Given enough funding, a circumferential regional rail line will connect UTC station with SDSU Mission Valley stopping by Kearny Mesa, another massively upzoned brownfield area along the way, then passing through dense inner city areas before ending at San Ysidro. It'll be almost completely along surface arterials instead of freeways.
All this TOD is happening in areas North of Downtown San Diego, which is a perfect rebalancing of the Trolley system, as currently the highest ridership segment of the Trolley is South of Downtown. And hopefully this polycentricity will make all day frequency even more economical to run. Not that the Trolley currently has high operating costs. In fact, as Alon Levy had noted, it has some of the lowest of any US LRT.
The Trolley absolutely does a lot right and other systems in the US could learn a lot from it, however I would like to see some more modern design decisions being taken - the grade crossings on the new extension are nuts in my opinion. Modern 100% low floor vehicles also probably make sense for some services.
I also think that higher speed regional rail as you reference is critical, light rail is speed limited and not competitive with cars over longer distances!
Yep, I wish the new Mid Coast stations were built as island platforms to eliminate the pedestrian grade crossings.
The San Diego bus system does have a spine on the I-15 with an impressive 16 buses per hour in the peak direction, extending 40 km North of Downtown.
The streetcars have a real problem getting across Bloor and turning through heavy Dundas traffic to get into/out of the Dundas W station. Often wondered if the streetcar loop could be integrated into the Choice development on the SE corner, with ped passage under Bloor to the subway. I understood the UP/GO platform was to be moved south into the Choice development as well.
I don't think the station is getting moved, in fact I am sure it is not (new platform and tunnels coming soon) however I definitely think having ped passages would make a lot of sense! We really ought to have a selective priority signal in general because streetcars often struggle to get into and out of the loops.
Interesting discussion surrounding the extension of the western end of the Ontario Line, on the east end of the line it's obvious that the line should eventually be extended north along Don Mills to Sheppard and possibly points north (it would be nice to see it extended to IBM and J-Town on Steeles). I've heard the western end of the line would be extended along Dufferin St to the midtown rail corridor and then branch west and north along Jane. Perhaps going along Roncesvalles would be a better route?
I've not read anything definitive about a potential west Ontario Line extension, however suggestions have been along or under the GO/UPX rail corridor up to Dundas West (& potentially beyond, such as to the Junction). Another is to extend the Ontario due west toward Parkdale and Humber Bay Shores (Park Lawn & Lake Shore Blvd West), where there's a huge 25 tower condo development planned. Although the GO station there has been approved, and the Waterfront West LRT may eventually reach there in the 2040s (not yet approved), traffic will become a clusterf&ck before then, w/ only 2 roads to the community). I'm not suggesting that this is the correct extension, just pointing out the alternative. A detailed analysis of alignments, potential ridership, land use planning (& unfortunately politicians) will determine the most beneficial route.
I've often thought that Bloor-Dundas West (BDW?) is quiteunderdeveloped as TOD for your stated reasons, but fortunately development is starting. Add to that the Bloor-Lansdowne (Blansdowne) infill GO station a short walk away, and this twin hub becomes super connected. I suspect nothing has happened partly because of zoning and perhaps neighbour complaints, though I've not heard of the latter. Obviously the condos need to have affordable housing components, as the immediate area is not well off. Plus the ongoing Crossways resistance to the TTC-GO tunnel connexion beneath it may indicate some heat from locals.
Roncies 504 service has been improved w/ bumpout raised loading platforms, & bike lanes, and the corresponding reduced traffic, & further such improvements need to be made on the 506 College route into High Park. And obviously further east on 505 & 506 routes to give streetcars priority over cars. It seems to me that the segment north of Roncies on Dundas up to the station is not bad, but could use additional transit priority.
As more condos are being constructed (and needed!), & our roads fill up with traffic, we need more, and more effective, surface transit priority. Adding people & cars, & some GO train service (albeit needed), is still insufficient for this rapidly growing city. Residents need more reliable and more frequent local route service, if they are to rely on transit and not cars.
The city is in a key transition, from car based to transit network based. Additional LRT & subway lines is great, plus additional non-rush hour GO service, but this all needs to be based on reliable local service. The city & province are funding the former, finally, and fortunately. But we need a similar investment in our surface transit network. Building subways is really expensive. The King Street Crosstown Transit Priority Corridor shows what a hundred million (or so) can do to increase existing surface transit twofold, without the disruption and spending of billions on subways. I'm in no way arguing that the Ontario Line is not needed - it is, and it's way overdue. But local transit is the feeder and distributer of subway, LRT, GO, & UPX trips. That's where the city is falling down.
Don't disagree re local transit at all, which is why I suggest extending 504 to the Junction. I also think cycling infrastructure has a number of major benefits over local transit that mean it should also be a much bigger focus. We have a LOT of local transit routes that could honestly probably be better off being replaced with good cycling infra - or at least a change in focus.
We also need to not forget ped space, Toronto has very narrow sidewalks in a lot of places - including the above area and we need to do a lot better!
You wrote that the tunnel is making progress on approvals. Do you have any specific updates?
The Crossways building concourse could have and should have. A negative that could become a positive if only...