My excuse, whether it is true or not, is that the pictures being taken "aren't for commercial purposes as stated in your policy is allowed." That usually stumps them.
I remember being asked not to by station staff in the past, even though the company policy on their website allows photograph, within reasonable limits. It’s such a tiny thing that most probably wouldn’t be bothered by, but you’re so right, anti-photography policies are often aimed at your most enthusiastic supporters, and for no good reason most of the time.
This is a new thing since 9/11. In the '90s, I took tons of photos in public, including around public transit,, and never got any trouble from anyone at all. This was walking around with a Pentax K1000 film camera that was not stealth. It is sad and frustrating how western societies have become so much more closed and paranoid since then. (There's more "No Trespassing" signs too )
My son is a bus spotter, and constantly taking photos of buses out in the wild. Only time he had a problem was a bus driver who really did not want to be in the back ground of the photos.
- do not cause an obstruction, particularly for the transit staff.
- do not go anywhere you shouldn’t be
- be careful/considerate and leave the environment no worse than you found it
- try to minimise the number of people you capture in your footage (particularly faces where they could be easily identifiable).
Do all of that and there is no reasonable person that should have any issues. For dealing with the unreasonable people out there, maybe just be polite and move on, even if you are sure you are okay to shoot photos/videos a lot of the time it’s just not worth the aggravation in standing your ground. If the problem is with transit staff there are probably other ways to deal with it.
Oh I agree completely with what you're saying and do all of this stuff - but this is more of a piece about how things "should" be. Others may not have the same policies!
I thought this was only a Chinese issue. As a Chinese rail fan resides in Canada, I know lots of cases where trainspotters were harassed by station workers back in China, for no clear reason and no policy or by-law to support the restrictions. In Canada, I only had one experience of being shouted by a GO train conductor, when I was taking a video of the train departure very far away from that employee. Other than that, I have been filming trains in Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal and Calgary, and never encountered such issue. If this happens next time, I will use law and my right to argue for protect myself.
Yesterday I took a photo inside a grocery store with a "no photography!" sign in front. Rebel!
Also, once a crazy vigilante enforcer (aka "neighbourhood watchman") literally threatened to stab me for merely photographing a fox squirrel in a tree.
I live in Australia, and here I have never been told off for filming or taking pictures. I even do it inside of train stations (the paid areas) and I have never been bothered by staff. At one interchange station there is a viewing platform just down the street, and there's a place at both main terminals where you can do this as well.
I'm from Melbourne and i've never had this problem when it comes to transit staff...had a few issues with the general public but that rarely happens.
I reckon the people who mostly get into trouble here are the ones who stray into transport corridors...but most of us transport enthusiasts do the right thing...although there is that worry that the ones who don't do the right thing make the rest of us who do look bad...
I do recall a bus driver watching me take pictures, but didn't say anything. One bus driver stopped so I could take a picture.
Well, being from a Montreal suburb, I can apologize on behalf of the STM for giving you a hard time. I have taken numerous transit photos in the metro and in, on and from buses and trains and I have not once been accosted.
Anyone can cast the scenario of innocent pictures, fine ... but what about "activists" aggressively filming people who they feel are on an opposing side or even just passing thru a property that the activists have decided is evil (maybe its those bookstore owners, or mall landlords whom activists imagine are aligned with the other side of the activists cause ...) . That filming is aggressive, and other folks wont want to be in the background of those pic either. Now you are imposing on the guard the value judgement as to what is innocent photography vs unacceptable. And what happens if one of those activists or subjects of the photography is of a particular ethnic or political group that likes to call out that they are persecuted? Easier for the bureaucrats to just ban it all ! Not that any of this makes me happy, and I still take pic in transit facilities and public spaces but I am much more aware of ensuring few people are in the pic, and certainly no children or street people, so pic of transit facilities are usually eerily empty.
I've gotten detained for photography many times, usually because some paranoid suburbanites reported me. Not surprisingly, the cops who detained me freaked out when I used my passport for identification because I'm unable to drive🙄.
Also, US airport security is run like a concentration camp.
My excuse, whether it is true or not, is that the pictures being taken "aren't for commercial purposes as stated in your policy is allowed." That usually stumps them.
Haha thats a good excuse
I remember being asked not to by station staff in the past, even though the company policy on their website allows photograph, within reasonable limits. It’s such a tiny thing that most probably wouldn’t be bothered by, but you’re so right, anti-photography policies are often aimed at your most enthusiastic supporters, and for no good reason most of the time.
Your last sentence is everything, why create a policy designed to alienate the people you should be bringing into the tent!
In most cases there is no policy preventing photos being taken, it is something made up by the security guards or transport company staff.
Perhaps, but the problem persists!
Particularly certain individuals who are power hungry or enjoy bullying us for fun.
So true!
Its so important for so many reasons
Good article.
This is a new thing since 9/11. In the '90s, I took tons of photos in public, including around public transit,, and never got any trouble from anyone at all. This was walking around with a Pentax K1000 film camera that was not stealth. It is sad and frustrating how western societies have become so much more closed and paranoid since then. (There's more "No Trespassing" signs too )
It certainly has gotten a lot worse, but it mostly *feels* like theater to me.
That and also "No loitering".
"Loitering" is a fake invented victimless crime that's designed to criminalise using your feet and force car dependence. Yes, like "jaywalking."
The post-9/11 fear and paranoia are bad enough, but have gotten worse than ever since the Parkland hysteria in 2018 and COVID rubbish in 2020.
My son is a bus spotter, and constantly taking photos of buses out in the wild. Only time he had a problem was a bus driver who really did not want to be in the back ground of the photos.
Thats good to hear, maybe things are getting better
For me the keys are:
- do not cause an obstruction, particularly for the transit staff.
- do not go anywhere you shouldn’t be
- be careful/considerate and leave the environment no worse than you found it
- try to minimise the number of people you capture in your footage (particularly faces where they could be easily identifiable).
Do all of that and there is no reasonable person that should have any issues. For dealing with the unreasonable people out there, maybe just be polite and move on, even if you are sure you are okay to shoot photos/videos a lot of the time it’s just not worth the aggravation in standing your ground. If the problem is with transit staff there are probably other ways to deal with it.
Oh I agree completely with what you're saying and do all of this stuff - but this is more of a piece about how things "should" be. Others may not have the same policies!
I think it really comes down to common sense is not so common these days. :)
I thought this was only a Chinese issue. As a Chinese rail fan resides in Canada, I know lots of cases where trainspotters were harassed by station workers back in China, for no clear reason and no policy or by-law to support the restrictions. In Canada, I only had one experience of being shouted by a GO train conductor, when I was taking a video of the train departure very far away from that employee. Other than that, I have been filming trains in Vancouver, Toronto, Montreal and Calgary, and never encountered such issue. If this happens next time, I will use law and my right to argue for protect myself.
I have had very few issues in Canada given how much I've filmed, but in my eyes I should have had 0!
Yesterday I took a photo inside a grocery store with a "no photography!" sign in front. Rebel!
Also, once a crazy vigilante enforcer (aka "neighbourhood watchman") literally threatened to stab me for merely photographing a fox squirrel in a tree.
I live in Australia, and here I have never been told off for filming or taking pictures. I even do it inside of train stations (the paid areas) and I have never been bothered by staff. At one interchange station there is a viewing platform just down the street, and there's a place at both main terminals where you can do this as well.
I don't see the big deal...
Interesting because from what I've heard staff can be pretty bad about this, in Melbourne at least!
I'm from Melbourne and i've never had this problem when it comes to transit staff...had a few issues with the general public but that rarely happens.
I reckon the people who mostly get into trouble here are the ones who stray into transport corridors...but most of us transport enthusiasts do the right thing...although there is that worry that the ones who don't do the right thing make the rest of us who do look bad...
I do recall a bus driver watching me take pictures, but didn't say anything. One bus driver stopped so I could take a picture.
Interesting, the guy I know definitely doesn’t break the rules!
Well, being from a Montreal suburb, I can apologize on behalf of the STM for giving you a hard time. I have taken numerous transit photos in the metro and in, on and from buses and trains and I have not once been accosted.
It was in the REM!
Anyone can cast the scenario of innocent pictures, fine ... but what about "activists" aggressively filming people who they feel are on an opposing side or even just passing thru a property that the activists have decided is evil (maybe its those bookstore owners, or mall landlords whom activists imagine are aligned with the other side of the activists cause ...) . That filming is aggressive, and other folks wont want to be in the background of those pic either. Now you are imposing on the guard the value judgement as to what is innocent photography vs unacceptable. And what happens if one of those activists or subjects of the photography is of a particular ethnic or political group that likes to call out that they are persecuted? Easier for the bureaucrats to just ban it all ! Not that any of this makes me happy, and I still take pic in transit facilities and public spaces but I am much more aware of ensuring few people are in the pic, and certainly no children or street people, so pic of transit facilities are usually eerily empty.
Thanks for sharing this, very interesting - getting detained is horrible
I've gotten detained for photography many times, usually because some paranoid suburbanites reported me. Not surprisingly, the cops who detained me freaked out when I used my passport for identification because I'm unable to drive🙄.
Also, US airport security is run like a concentration camp.