This reminds me of how New York City spends so much money building a few new subway stations (like on the Second Ave. Subway or the Hudson Yards 7-train station) that are huge and full of nice artwork and architecture, and yet so many of the old subway stations are filthy. Meanwhile, for example, stations in Tokyo that were built in the 1920s look clean and modern nowadays because proper maintenance has been done.
When the CLRV's were running for decades, and decades, and decades, they continued to use linens for their destination signage. In the meantime, the new buses ran with electronic dot matrix signage, even though the buses would have a life span of a decade plus maybe a five years. Instead of keeping up with new improved additions, the TTC would continue running everything without upgrades.
If you think that's bad, you need to see the UK national rail system, while we have got some new trains, lot's of operators are stuck with trains that they can't replace.
This reminds me of the strategy that ns uses, basically all ns trains are used for at least 40 years. They get a big mid life overhaul and refurbishment conducted in house by ns werkplaats Harlem (previously NedTrain and before that Werkspoor). After the refurbishment the model name will be augmented with and added small m standing for modernised. An example is the oldest train still in service with ns the ICM (nickname koploper) that is now named ICMm.
Ns werkplaats Harlem has done some pretty whacky and need stuff, like turning old tired push pull local coaches into high quality express regional 'ic' 'emu's' (more an permanently couped train with a power trailer that also has seating on the upper level).
(we call in intercity but because of the density and size of the Netherlands its more of a regional express calling it full ic would place an unrealistic expectation on ns) the go train to London Ontario travels more distance than most ns ic's on one route. The service is just above an average German RE service on ire level if you will.
Here in Montreal the original metro cars are still running, since the 1960s. They are gradually being replaced by the Azure train sets, but this is after a significant amount of time and usage of those original metro cars. Our stations are also getting upgraded piecemeal to make them accessible, though not at the rate that the metro riding population would like. Lastly, our transit rates are going up with the base single fare rising from 3.50 to 3.75. This prompted a number of articles from people who say that public transit ought to be free. Unfortunately the provincial government here in Quebec is too dissociated from the metropolis to even consider this.
I believe the oldest MR-63 trains in Montreal have been retired, and now the oldest metro trains still being used in Montreal are the MR-73 trains, from the 1970s. The MR-73’s do look a bit old, but they were refurbished in the 2000s. I think the STM still plans on using them up until some time in 2030s, at which point I guess they expect to have converted the entire system to CBTC signalling and use only the AZUR trains.
I mostly agree, but would worry about this making maintenance harder if it means you have to maintain more types of equipment (at least, if you're refurbishing anything breakable).
So if you update things as you go, you'll have to maintain multiple types of things - you'll have a mix of different faregates or LCD screens using different parts and attached to different stations or trains, which means you have to keep more types of spare parts on hand. It also makes things harder for your maintenance crews - in general, 90% of the problems they see are things they've seen a thousand times and know just how to fix, but the last 10% probably take up most of their time because they actually have to figure out a new problem and how to fix it (or do something like call in the expert in this specific part, and he's out until Tuesday so it'll take another week to fix).
(OTOH this is also why replacing/reufurbishing that last outdated 10% of your inventory is a huge help to maintenance).
(I should caveat this by saying I don't have work experience in maintenance in transit/physical industry (just in software) and really, really hope someone with more background can step in).
This reminds me of how New York City spends so much money building a few new subway stations (like on the Second Ave. Subway or the Hudson Yards 7-train station) that are huge and full of nice artwork and architecture, and yet so many of the old subway stations are filthy. Meanwhile, for example, stations in Tokyo that were built in the 1920s look clean and modern nowadays because proper maintenance has been done.
Yep, keeping stuff you already have in a good state of repair has value! Not just new stuff! It’s key!
When the CLRV's were running for decades, and decades, and decades, they continued to use linens for their destination signage. In the meantime, the new buses ran with electronic dot matrix signage, even though the buses would have a life span of a decade plus maybe a five years. Instead of keeping up with new improved additions, the TTC would continue running everything without upgrades.
Yep, for no good reason - LED screens have so many advantages!
If you think that's bad, you need to see the UK national rail system, while we have got some new trains, lot's of operators are stuck with trains that they can't replace.
The UK is in a strange place rolling stock wise.
Would the old Line 2 trains be refurbished with ATC in mind?
This reminds me of the strategy that ns uses, basically all ns trains are used for at least 40 years. They get a big mid life overhaul and refurbishment conducted in house by ns werkplaats Harlem (previously NedTrain and before that Werkspoor). After the refurbishment the model name will be augmented with and added small m standing for modernised. An example is the oldest train still in service with ns the ICM (nickname koploper) that is now named ICMm.
Ns werkplaats Harlem has done some pretty whacky and need stuff, like turning old tired push pull local coaches into high quality express regional 'ic' 'emu's' (more an permanently couped train with a power trailer that also has seating on the upper level).
(we call in intercity but because of the density and size of the Netherlands its more of a regional express calling it full ic would place an unrealistic expectation on ns) the go train to London Ontario travels more distance than most ns ic's on one route. The service is just above an average German RE service on ire level if you will.
Here in Montreal the original metro cars are still running, since the 1960s. They are gradually being replaced by the Azure train sets, but this is after a significant amount of time and usage of those original metro cars. Our stations are also getting upgraded piecemeal to make them accessible, though not at the rate that the metro riding population would like. Lastly, our transit rates are going up with the base single fare rising from 3.50 to 3.75. This prompted a number of articles from people who say that public transit ought to be free. Unfortunately the provincial government here in Quebec is too dissociated from the metropolis to even consider this.
I don’t think transit should be free! That being said I do think Montreal did some big renos on it’s older cars?
Ah yes, thé LED screens on them are actually quite nice!
I believe the oldest MR-63 trains in Montreal have been retired, and now the oldest metro trains still being used in Montreal are the MR-73 trains, from the 1970s. The MR-73’s do look a bit old, but they were refurbished in the 2000s. I think the STM still plans on using them up until some time in 2030s, at which point I guess they expect to have converted the entire system to CBTC signalling and use only the AZUR trains.
I mostly agree, but would worry about this making maintenance harder if it means you have to maintain more types of equipment (at least, if you're refurbishing anything breakable).
Hmm, can you elaborate? By not getting a new train I’d think you reduce your maintenance load by being able to continue maintaining an older vehicle.
So if you update things as you go, you'll have to maintain multiple types of things - you'll have a mix of different faregates or LCD screens using different parts and attached to different stations or trains, which means you have to keep more types of spare parts on hand. It also makes things harder for your maintenance crews - in general, 90% of the problems they see are things they've seen a thousand times and know just how to fix, but the last 10% probably take up most of their time because they actually have to figure out a new problem and how to fix it (or do something like call in the expert in this specific part, and he's out until Tuesday so it'll take another week to fix).
(OTOH this is also why replacing/reufurbishing that last outdated 10% of your inventory is a huge help to maintenance).
(I should caveat this by saying I don't have work experience in maintenance in transit/physical industry (just in software) and really, really hope someone with more background can step in).