I'm glad you wrote this, I think we need people doing this far and wide. Show that better things really are possible, it's just a matter of being willing to understand how, and taking the cost control issue seriously. I think we absolutely cannot afford (literally) to stop banging this drum. Not to repeat myself from earlier, but I don't know what it'd take for governments to realize that we are screwing ourselves over with these costs.
It still bugs me though that we have all this legacy infrastructure but the state of mainline passenger rail on this continent is so dismal that it'd probably be easier to build an entirely new from-scratch system...been feeling a bit sad about this, especially given that it seems like our mainline agencies (not to mention the freight companies) seem to have a universal allergy to wires. The rest of the world electrified ages ago, and China and India are electrifying right now...come on guys!
On that note, how would you figure intercity/interregional trains into this system? New tunnel between Centrale and Lucien-L'Allier and through-running onwards?
Further thoughts - I live in Pointe-Claire and so with your plan I'd be close to both the already existing Rem A and the new Rem B and the Rem B is awesome for it's direct connection to multiple stops downtown, like a link at central station to take Via Rail to Quebec City and another one at Berri-UQAM to take the metro to Ile Ste-Helene.
just thinking about the development at Royalmount and Blue Bonnets ... the possibility of capping highway Cavendish to make parks, ped/bike crossings, and bus loops for the orange line is pretty tantalizing
Interesting proposal, Reece! I really like how you turn REM C into a line that serves destinations along Taschereau Blvd but still has a direct connection to downtown Montreal. I’d maybe be tempted to do something similar with the branches in Laval to serve Blvd de la Concorde, which has been identified as a corridor for a higher-order transit line (currently a BRT line is being studied). The line could split into 3 branches in Laval, one branch could go north all the way to Ste-Thérèse, one branch could go west along Blvd de la Concorde/Blvd Notre Dame toward Ste-Dorothée, and one branch could go east along Blvd de la Concorde toward St-Vincent-de-Paul.
Also, for REM B it might be interesting to consider this alignment which was proposed in 2022 and inspired by the pink line:
Such a line would have the advantage of serving parts of Rosemont-La-Petite-Patrie that despite being quite dense currently have no higher-order transit.
The comment about the contiguous built-up area (with REM vs EXO) made me think about Metro Vancouver - specifically the Langley Skytrain extension. Is Skytrain the best mode to reach exurbs such as South Surrey, Langley, and Maple Ridge (each of which are now their own [sub]urban areas with over 100k people).
I wonder if a regional rail system/expansion (multiple lines) of the WCE would be a better solution for TransLink's rapid transit system to reach these areas? A heavy-rail passenger system could also provide relief to the expo line's main branch, if done right.
Really love your plan! Would be a dream for Montreal and the whole region. The only thing Im not sure of are the branches. They should be there but all trains should stop at a common station and people would have to make a change for another train for the branche they want. Otherwise the frequency would be lowered because you would have to wait for the right train of the three on line C for example so even if it's 5 minutes between the trains at peak time it could still mean a 15 minutes wait. So a smooth change but with less waiting at the begining because of higher frequency could reduce travel time overall I think. Then again it's all a question of preference. I just know those kind of lines with 2 branches in Paris are often confusing and you wait up to 20 minutes at times.
With automatic trains, you can afford a much higher frequency so waits on the branches could stay less than 10 minutes. Like core headways would range from 1.5min - 3 minutes meaning a headway of only 4.5 - 9 minutes on each of the three C branches.
This statement here reminds me of the debacle that is the endless, decades-long series of delays in building the Cavendish link, albeit a little less intense.
Awesome plan, I am in full support.
Thanks Phil! I am too ;)
I'm glad you wrote this, I think we need people doing this far and wide. Show that better things really are possible, it's just a matter of being willing to understand how, and taking the cost control issue seriously. I think we absolutely cannot afford (literally) to stop banging this drum. Not to repeat myself from earlier, but I don't know what it'd take for governments to realize that we are screwing ourselves over with these costs.
It still bugs me though that we have all this legacy infrastructure but the state of mainline passenger rail on this continent is so dismal that it'd probably be easier to build an entirely new from-scratch system...been feeling a bit sad about this, especially given that it seems like our mainline agencies (not to mention the freight companies) seem to have a universal allergy to wires. The rest of the world electrified ages ago, and China and India are electrifying right now...come on guys!
On that note, how would you figure intercity/interregional trains into this system? New tunnel between Centrale and Lucien-L'Allier and through-running onwards?
I am actually doing a video on exactly that, how to modernize EXO - so stay tuned!
Further thoughts - I live in Pointe-Claire and so with your plan I'd be close to both the already existing Rem A and the new Rem B and the Rem B is awesome for it's direct connection to multiple stops downtown, like a link at central station to take Via Rail to Quebec City and another one at Berri-UQAM to take the metro to Ile Ste-Helene.
Absolutely, with a larger network the connectivity would really be fantastic!
just thinking about the development at Royalmount and Blue Bonnets ... the possibility of capping highway Cavendish to make parks, ped/bike crossings, and bus loops for the orange line is pretty tantalizing
Yeah it really is! Could make the area much more pleasant!
Interesting proposal, Reece! I really like how you turn REM C into a line that serves destinations along Taschereau Blvd but still has a direct connection to downtown Montreal. I’d maybe be tempted to do something similar with the branches in Laval to serve Blvd de la Concorde, which has been identified as a corridor for a higher-order transit line (currently a BRT line is being studied). The line could split into 3 branches in Laval, one branch could go north all the way to Ste-Thérèse, one branch could go west along Blvd de la Concorde/Blvd Notre Dame toward Ste-Dorothée, and one branch could go east along Blvd de la Concorde toward St-Vincent-de-Paul.
Also, for REM B it might be interesting to consider this alignment which was proposed in 2022 and inspired by the pink line:
https://vivreenville.org/nos-positions/communiques/communiques/2022/le-nouveau-rem-de-l-est-une-connexion-directe-entre-l-est-et-le-cœur-de-la-metropole.aspx#:~:text=Le%20nouveau%20REM%20de%20l'Est%20répond%20aux%20ambitions%20du,avancer%20le%20transport%20à%20Montréal.
Such a line would have the advantage of serving parts of Rosemont-La-Petite-Patrie that despite being quite dense currently have no higher-order transit.
Yeah there are certainly places where you would want to adjust, this is just an "exploration of the possible".
More information on the Vivre en Ville pink line-inspired proposal:
https://vivreenville.org/media/1311697/Nouveau_REM_Est-_C_25082022.pdf
The comment about the contiguous built-up area (with REM vs EXO) made me think about Metro Vancouver - specifically the Langley Skytrain extension. Is Skytrain the best mode to reach exurbs such as South Surrey, Langley, and Maple Ridge (each of which are now their own [sub]urban areas with over 100k people).
I wonder if a regional rail system/expansion (multiple lines) of the WCE would be a better solution for TransLink's rapid transit system to reach these areas? A heavy-rail passenger system could also provide relief to the expo line's main branch, if done right.
Really love your plan! Would be a dream for Montreal and the whole region. The only thing Im not sure of are the branches. They should be there but all trains should stop at a common station and people would have to make a change for another train for the branche they want. Otherwise the frequency would be lowered because you would have to wait for the right train of the three on line C for example so even if it's 5 minutes between the trains at peak time it could still mean a 15 minutes wait. So a smooth change but with less waiting at the begining because of higher frequency could reduce travel time overall I think. Then again it's all a question of preference. I just know those kind of lines with 2 branches in Paris are often confusing and you wait up to 20 minutes at times.
With automatic trains, you can afford a much higher frequency so waits on the branches could stay less than 10 minutes. Like core headways would range from 1.5min - 3 minutes meaning a headway of only 4.5 - 9 minutes on each of the three C branches.
Call me pessimistic, but I will be surprised if Montreal starts to build half of this in 20 years. However, if implemented, I am in full support.
This statement here reminds me of the debacle that is the endless, decades-long series of delays in building the Cavendish link, albeit a little less intense.
Finally, a REM branch that would be within easy reach of my house in Cote St. Luc!
REM for one REM for all!